By John Frisby • May 26th, 2009 • Category: Inspiration, Patriotism, War on Terror

May 26, 2009

After I returned in 1973, I published 2 books that dealt a lot with “real torture” in Hanoi.  Our make believe president is branding our country as a bunch of torturers when he has no idea what torture is.

 

As for me..put thru a mock execution because I would not respond…pistol whipped on the head…same event..  Couple of days later…hung by my feet all day.

 

I escaped and got recaptured a couple of weeks later.  I got shot and recaptured.  Shot was OK…what happened after was not.

 

They marched me to Vinh.  put me in the rope trick, trick almost pulled my arms out of the sockets Beat me on the head with a little wooden rod until my eyes were swelled shut, and my unshot, unbroken hand a pulp.

 

Next day hung me by the arms…rebroke my right wrist…wiped out the nerves in my arms that control the hands, rolled my fingers up into a ball.  Only left the slightest movement of my L forefinger.  So I started answering with some incredible lies.

 

Sent me to Hanoi strapped to a barrel of gas in the back of a truck.

 

Hanoi, on my knees..rope trick again.  Beaten by a big fool.

 

Into leg irons on a bed in Heartbreak Hotel.

 

Much kneeling–hands up at Zoo.

 

Really bad beating for refusing to condemn Lyndon Johnson.

 

Several more kneeling events.  I could see my knee bone thru kneeling holes.

 

There was an escape from the annex to the Zoo.  I was the Senior Officer of a large building because of escape..they started a mass torture of all commanders.

 

I think it was July 7, 1969, they started beating me with a car fan belt.  In first 2 days I took over 300 strokes..then stopped counting because I never thought I would live thru it.

 

They continued day-nite torture to get me to confess to a non-existent part in the escape.  This went on for at least 3 days.  On my knees..fan belting..  cut open my scrotum with fan belt stroke.  opened up both knee holes again.  My fanny looked like hamburger..I could not lie on my back.

 

They tortured me into admitting that I was in on the escape..and that my 2 room-mates knew about it.

 

The next day I denied the lie.

 

They commenced torturing me again with 3- 6- or 9 strokes of the fan belt every day from about July 11 or 12rh..to 14 October 1969.  I continued to refuse to lie about my roommates again.

 

Now, the point of this is that our make-believe president has declared to the world that we (U.S.) are a bunch of torturers.  Thus it will be OK to torture us next time when they catch us….because that is what the U.S. does.

 

Our make-believe president is a know nothing fool who thinks that pouring a little water on some one’s face, or hanging a pair of womens pants over an Arabs head is TORTURE.  He is a meathead.

 

I just talked to MOH holder Leo Thorsness who was also in my sq in jail, as was John McCain, and we agree that McCain does not speak for the POW group when he claims that Al Gharib was torture, or that “water boarding” is torture.

 

Our president and those fools around him who keep bad mouthing our great country are a disgrace to the United States.  Please pass this info on to Sean Hannity.  He is free to use it to point out the stupidity of the claims that water boarding, which has no after effect, is torture.  If it got the Arab to cough up the story about how he planned the attack on the twin towers in NYC…hurrah for the guy who poured the water.

 

BUD DAY, MOH

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

George Everett “Bud” Day (born February 24, 1925) is a retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and Command Pilot who served during the Vietnam War. He is the most decorated U.S. service member since General Douglas MacArthur, having received some seventy decorations, a majority for actions in combat. Day is a recipient of the Medal of Honor.

 

Day was born in Sioux City, Iowa, on February 24, 1925. In 1942 he quit high school and enlisted in the United States Marine Corps. He served 30 months in the North Pacific during World War II as a member of a 5 in (130 mm) gun battery with the 3rd Defense Battalion on Johnston Island.

 

After the war, Day attended Morningside College on the G.I. Bill, earning a Bachelor of Science Degree, followed by law school at the University of South Dakota, receiving a Juris Doctor. Day passed the bar exam in 1949 and was admitted to the bar in South Dakota. In later life, Day was also awarded a Master of Arts degree from St. Louis University, a Doctor of Humane Letters from Morningside, and a Doctor of Laws from Troy State University. Day was admitted to the Florida Bar in 1977.

 

A member of the Army Reserve, in 1950 he received a direct commission as a Second Lieutenant in the Iowa Air National Guard, and was called to active duty in 1951 for Undergraduate Pilot Training. He served two tours as a fighter-bomber pilot during the Korean War flying the Republic F-84 Thunderjet. Promoted to captain, he decided to make the Air Force a career and was augmented into the Regular Air Force.

 

Anticipating retirement in 1968 and now a major, Day volunteered for a tour in Vietnam and was assigned to the 31st Tactical Fighter Wing at Tuy Hoa Air Base in April 1967. At that time he had more than 5,000 flying hours, with 4,500 of them in fighters. On June 25, 1967, with extensive previous service flying two tours in F-100 Super Sabres, Day was made detachment commander of Detachment 1, 612th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 37th Tactical Fighter Wing based at Phu Cat Air Base. Under the project name “Commando Sabre”, twin-seat USAF F-100Fs were evaluated as a Fast Forward Air Control (”Fast FAC”) aircraft in high threat areas, given that F-4 Phantom II aircraft were in high demand for strike and Combat Air Patrol (CAP) roles. Although the crews were assigned to the 612th, most of the aircraft seemed to have belonged to the 416th Tactical Fighter Squadron. Using the call sign Misty, the name of Day’s favorite song, his detachment of two-seat F-100Fs and 16 pilots became pioneer “Fast FACs”: Forward Air Controllers over Laos and North Vietnam. All Misty FAC crews were volunteers with at least 100 combat missions in Vietnam and 1,000 minimum flight hours.

 

On August 26, 1967, then-Major Day was flying a twin-seat F-100F-15-NA, AF Serial No. 56-3954, call sign “Misty 3″, on a forward air control (FAC) mission just north of the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ). Flying with Day in the aircraft was Captain Corwin “Kip” Kippenham, as they directed a flight of F-105 Thunderchiefs in an air strike against a surface-to-air missile (SAM) site north of Thon Cam Son and west of Dong Hoi, 20 mi (32 km) north of the DMZ in North Vietnam. Day was on his 65th mission and acting as check pilot for Captain Kippenhan, who was flying as aircraft commander for the first time. 37 mm antiaircraft fire crippled the aircraft, forcing the crew to eject. In the ejection, Day’s right arm was broken in three places when he struck the side of the cockpit, and he also experienced eye and back injuries.

 

Kippenhan was rescued by a USAF HH-3E, but Day was unable to contact the rescue helicopter by survival radio and was quickly captured by North Vietnamese local militia. On his fifth night, when he was still within 20 mi (32 km) of the DMZ, Day escaped from his initial captors despite his serious injuries. Although stripped of both his boots and flight suit, Day crossed the Demilitarized Zone back into South Vietnam, becoming the only U.S. prisoner of war to escape from North Vietnam. Within 2 mi (3 km) of the U.S. Marine firebase at Con Thien and after 12–15 days of evading, he was captured again, this time by a Viet Cong patrol that wounded him in the leg and hand with gunfire.

 

Taken back to his original camp, Day was tortured for escaping, breaking his right arm again. He then was moved to several prison camps near Hanoi, where he was periodically beaten, starved, and tortured. In December 1967, Day shared a cell with Navy Lieutenant Commander and future Senator and Presidential Candidate John S. McCain III who was even more seriously injured and emaciated. Air Force Major Norris Overly nursed both back to health, and McCain later devised a makeshift splint of bamboo and rags that helped heal Day’s seriously atrophied arm.

 

On March 14, 1973, Day was released after five years and seven months as a North Vietnamese prisoner. Within three days Day was reunited with his wife, Doris Sorensen Day, and four children at March Air Force Base, California. On March 4, 1976, President Gerald Ford awarded Day the Medal of Honor for his personal bravery while a captive in North Vietnam.

 

Day had been promoted to Colonel while a prisoner, and decided to remain in the Air Force in hopes of being promoted to Brigadier General. Although initially too weak to resume operational flying, he spent a year in physical rehabilitation and with 13 separate medical waivers, was returned to active flying status. He underwent conversion training to the F-4 Phantom II and was appointed vice commander of the 33rd Tactical Fighter Wing at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida.

 

Day retired from active duty in 1977 to resume his practice of law in Florida. At his retirement he had nearly 8,000 total flying hours, 4,900 in single engine jets, and had flown the F-80 Shooting Star, F-84 Thunderjet, F-100 Super Sabre, F-101 Voodoo, F-104 Starfighter, F-105 Thunderchief, F-106 Delta Dart, F-4 Phantom II, A-4 Skyhawk, A-7 Corsair II, CF-5 Tiger, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, and CF-18 Hornet jet fighters.

 

Following his retirement, Day wrote an autobiographical account of his experiences as a prisoner of war, Return with Honor, followed by Duty, Honor, Country, which updated his autobiography to include his post-Air Force years. Among other endeavors, Day filed a class action lawsuit against the United States government in 1996 on behalf of military retirees who were stripped of their military medical care benefits at age 65 and told to apply for Medicare. Although winning the case in the district court in 2001, the judgment against the U.S. was overturned by the U.S. Court of Appeals in 2002. The U.S. Congress later redressed this situation by establishing the “TRICARE For Life” (TFL) program, which restored TRICARE military medical benefits for career military retirees over the age of 65, making the retirees eligible for both programs with Medicare as the primary payer and TRICARE as the secondary payer.

18 Comments »

1. I commend Colonel Day for his statement and I salute him as an American hero. He has my utmost respect for his service and his sacrifice !!! Now this man and all the other survivors of North Vietnamese p.o.w. camps know what torture is !!! For a much more recent update on torture and especially Arab torture I refer you to One Andy McNabb of the British SAS who was captured by the Iraqis during Desert Storm. They made a movie about his experiences called Bravo Two Zero. The call name of his squad. If you want to know a little about how the Arab world likes to treat p.o.w.s I suggest you rent the movie “Bravo Two Zero” or better yet try and contact Mr. McNabb and ask him about what he thinks of his experiences as an Iraqi p.o.w. What our forces did at Gitmo and Abu Gharib amount to a modern day hazing !!! I went through worse than what they (the terrorists) went through in my seventh grade hazing put on by the eighth graders at my school back in 1962 !!! Wake up America !!! All this self imposed guilt put on us by our uninformed and inexperienced elected officials has got to stop !!! All this is doing is weakening us as a nation in the eyes of the world and dividing us as a nation !!! Get informed before you decide what you think is torture. Talk to a vet who was a p.o.w. or read some books by former p.o.w.s Jeremiah Denton wrote a good one about his experiences in the infamous Hanoi Hilton. Read up on the Bataan Death March and the men that went through that !!! I’m sick of these whiny liberals who say we’re so bad and we need to apologize to the world for our actions !!! As far as I’m concerned we don’t owe anyone an apology. Period.

   Comment by Trent Lee — May 27, 2009 @ 4:19 am

2. [...] Posted by James Young on May 30, 2009 I recently read a post from the Lux Libertas site that rubbed me the wrong way. Click here to read. [...]

   Pingback by Torture is torture… « Loose Associations — May 30, 2009 @ 10:01 am

3. First off…How Horrific! We are fortunate to have people like Bud who are willing to sacrifice so much for our country.

   But…He is basically making the argument that the torture that he endured was much more horrific than what the US is being accused of, therefore what we did is not torture. He also points out that the torture he experienced was ineffective in that he either didn’t talk, or he gave false or conflicting information.

   The US ideal is equality and justice. This ideal is compromised when we defer to our basic instincts of revenge, and we close our minds to the diversity inherent in the world, and in our own country. By referring to President Obama as “our pretend President,” Bud is showing that he does not have loyalty to the country, but only to his own ideology. This is not patriotism, it is narcissism.

   Torture doesn’t work, and is wrong no matter the severity or who is doing it.

   Comment by James Young — May 30, 2009 @ 10:03 am

4. Do not agree with comments made by James Young in regards to both nothing can be learned through the use of puttng someone in an uncomfortable position and that calling our President only a pretender makes one unpatriotic.

   Ask anyone who has done enough questioning and they will tell you when you piece enough lies together, you can pretty well determine the truth. (Even parents become aware of this when they question their children.)

   And when anyone realizes some of the paths taken by our leaders are not helpful to the nation, but only to themselves thus criticize such actions, they are not unpatriotic… they are trying to help their country by pointing such things out.

   I know I am too old to see what the result of some of the current actions taken by our president will be, but I can assure you I pray to God for the sake of my children and their children’s children that they will survive the debt they are receiving and the possibility of some of their freedoms be taken away (especially if some foreign country starts having input into their lives).

   Comment by Ollie Maier — June 6, 2009 @ 6:19 am

5. Mr Young your world view is quite obviously somewhat blurred by the necessity of peering outward through your own navel. You’d better hope that the Bud Days of the world continue to protect your naive ass and those of your loved ones. I, for one, think he has more than earned the right to criticize the current holder of the office of the President, and in fact ANY holder of that office. To refer to a Medal of Honor holder as narcisstic is prima facia evidence of your ignorance, especially in light of the blatant narcissism of the “pretend President”. I did not think I would see another president as ignorant of the “real world” as Jimmy Carter in my lifetime. I have been proven wrong. We are still dealing with the legacy of Carter’s international ineptitude and our children and grandchildren will no doubt be dealing with the repurcussions of Barack Obama’s for years to come.
   Colonel Day, I salute you and it was an honor to have served with you so long ago. Thank you for your service to my grandchildren’s country. Dulce et decorum est, pro patria more.

   Comment by Michael Scaife — June 6, 2009 @ 4:49 pm

6. I commend Bud Day and it makes me sick to read all they did to him as a prisoner of war. I do understand, even though I never went through all of that! I almost feel like I did…..after reading all of that! My husband was Richard Allen Groves II, he joined the Navy in 1965, when he was 17. He was on the USS Intrepid and on the South shores of Vietnam on may 19th, 1966. He turned 18 on July 20th in Vietnam. I have photos of him and he looks like he is 10 or 12 yrs. old. He did not stay on a ship…. he was a “River Rat”, and they went up and down the river picking up wounded soldiers and getting them out of there for medical treatment to save their lives. he told me horried stories that he said he had never told anyone else, and I believe him. He was very traumatized by all of it, but he did re-up and do 2 tours there! He died Oct. 18, 1996 at the age of 48 from Agent Orange and he died a horrible death ! He was very sick from 1980 until his death in 1996. It just continually got worse, until he was dead ! He said, “when they came home from Vietnam…..they were considered baby killers !” There was no- ” hip-hip hooray…. you all made it home celebration for them ! But, he gave his life to save the lives of others and his was a slow , long , lingering death….. that was torture for him and for me, cause I loved him very much ! He too got a “Medal of Honor and several others!” He was considered 100% disabled about 2 weeks before he died in the VA Hosp. in Temple, Tx.! So, I was a widow at 44 yrs old…..on my 14th birthday, he was stepping ashore in Vietnam (May 19, 1966). Now at age 57, I am still a widow and will remain until my life is over! Yes, Mr. Day, I too know what torture is , just different than you ! I commend you, SIR… for your service to your country and also, for me and my FREEDOM !!!!! God Bless You, Sir ! Ruth Groves

   Comment by Ruth Groves — June 6, 2009 @ 9:32 pm

7. Yea, verily! It’s the Democratic fashion to be a Bush-Basher, but it is detestable to assume the role of a Democrat Debunker.
   They live with their heads in the sand, and absolutely cannot stand criticism against their beloved “gift-givers.” I only hope that we can recognize the peril we are headed for soon enough to be able to recover before the “S___ hits the fan.”
   We are being let to the slaughterhouse, by greedy politicians.
   Wake up, America!!!!!

   Comment by Charles Wheelahan — June 8, 2009 @ 6:37 am

8. Couldn’t have said it better, Mr Young

   Comment by Yvonne — June 14, 2009 @ 6:48 am

9. Men like Bud Day built America. I am a veteran of the Vietnam war, serving as a helicopter pilot. I would follow Bud Day to hell, but would not follow the likes of Obama, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter or Lyndon Johnson to the bathroom, not because they are Democrats, but because they are communist fools, or meatheads as Colonel Day put it for Obama.

   America is well on its way to rack and ruin, the real problem is the ingnorant electorate, all they can see is that they want their “juice” just like a 3 year old. Our infastructure is crumbling, but they want to promise “juice” to anyone who will vote for them.

   Comment by jim ratcliff — June 28, 2009 @ 5:08 pm

10. God bless you, Col. Day! MY dad is retired Air Force, & veteran of WWII, Korea and Viet Nam - You both are products of an America that we have lost. I’m glad I am old enough to have known a part of it - God bless you - MKW

    Comment by Marleen Williams — July 1, 2009 @ 12:14 pm

11. Mr. Young, it is because of people like Col. Day that gives you the right to speak freely! It is good that people have a right to their opinions and you have obviously expressed yours. My opinion is that I think you are wrong. I agree with Col. Day and many other respondants. I think President Obama is going to bring this incredible country to its knees. My hope is that we can overcome what is happening and not leave a disaster to our children. To me this country was based on the right to the persuite of happiness, not happiness will be given to you.

    Col. Day, I prepare to send my son to the Air Force in August. I pray that he will serve this country as you have served this country.

    Comment by Heather Henry — July 2, 2009 @ 3:46 pm

12. Distinguished Medal of Honor Recipient Colonel Bud Day (USAF Ret), there are no words in any language of the world to describe the amount of empathy and thanks that I feel for and towards you, there is absolutely nobody on the planet besides the unlucky few who could begin to fathom the lifelong debilitations and the stress given upon you and your fellow heroes. You are heroes, and I salute you for your service and your Medal.

    I won’t begin to become an expert on the subject of government and diplomacy, I am not, I am just a 18 year old boy who will be serving his country. However, I will voice my opinion that was not brought up by parental nor instructor coercion, for I have been given the opportunity and blessing to think for myself; and that is that I will stand behind the country in its ideals, which have been “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness” since July 4th 1776. Life, the god-given ability to experience conciousness and friendship. Liberty, the community given ability to not interfere with the right of Life. The Pursuit of Happiness, the self given ability to experience conciousness and friendship in the manner of ones own choosing. Therefore, it is my understanding that the current government is breaking the ideal of Liberty, we are not able to pursue our own happiness in our own manner, given the burden we will receive in my lifetime. I am not so naive to say that taxes should be expunged and governmental systems be thrown away, no, I am saying the the irresponsible and, frankly, unpatriotic acts and reforms the current administration bring forth are incorrect in their manner.

    In regards to the closing of Gitmo on the basis of the “No torture doctrine,” the diplomats who inact these proposals have, usually, not yet served their country in the military, and therefore do not understand, and do not WANT to understand, the horrible truths of what torture is. Do I believe that military service is required to understand the true monster of war? No, but I would hope that those diplomats would at least try to be objective and look at what the other side is doing to our heroes and heroines, and stop to think about how anyone of Gitmo’s prisoners would beg for more water-boarding if given the choice of that or any one of Colonel Day’s unimaginable horrors. As the good Colonel said, water-boarding has no long term effects, sure it has a chance of death, but POWs of Vietnam were not only killed, but executed, I think I’d prefer a good water boarding to being thrown into the Hanoi Hilton. And I firmly believe people should answer that question for themselves, would the rather be thrown in Gitmo and be water-boarded, or endure the lashings of a fan-belt to their scrotum, or severe and repeated breaking of limbs.

    I will be leaving for Lackland, AFB for BMT on the 18th of August, and I will then become an Aerospace Maintenance Apprentice for the United States Air Force, and plan to serve a full 20 years under Old Glory and her patriots. I can only hope I can serve half as well as you did, Colonel Day, and will support, and bear faith and allegiance, to my Country, and my United States Air Force, to the best of my ability, without any mental reservation, or purpose of evasion, So Help me God.

    Comment by John Henry — July 2, 2009 @ 9:50 pm

13. This breaks my heart and I cannot imagine the horror of it. How dare our present administration call our military torturerers and make apologies for our great nation and those who have fought and died for our freedoms. How dare they disregard the mercy and help we’ve given to rescue and enable other nations to live in freedom as well. Unbelievable, but I know in whom I have believed and am persuaded that NOTHING in heaven or on earth or under the earth can separate me from the love of God. He is and will ever be my safe place and His promises are sure. He said, “If My people who are called by my name, will humble themselves, turn from their wicked ways and pray; then will I hear from heaven; will forgive their sin and heal their land.” Just last evening I was listening to a conversation by two precious conservative people who were about to panic at what is happening in our government and I almost got caught up in it myself. Then God spoke in that still quiet voice from Chronicles; His Word that is more powerful than any mistakes, deceptions, or criminal activity in any government. “If My people…. will pray” he said. Therein lies our redemption and restoration I believe. In Christ, nothing is impossible! Love you, J

    Comment by Mama Jeannie — July 15, 2009 @ 11:32 am

14. The e-mail says it is from Colonel George E. “Bud” Day, although that has not been confirmed.

    I’ll assume for the moment that it was written by Colonel Day. This is a man who served for 35 years in three different branches of the military. Despite the horrendous things he suffered while a POW he hasn’t expressed any bitterness or regret over his service. Even after his retirement, he has continued to serve, for example when he filed a class-action lawsuit against the US Government for stripping retired military of their medical care benefits. He is undeniably a patriot and a hero.

    However, this does not make his opinions automatically correct. The fact that he was tortured means we should give weight to his opinions on torture, but in the end we have to analyze the arguments themselves and not just the personality behind them. As Colonel Day says, his opinions about torture are not shared by his former cell-mate John McCain, although McCain was also tortured and I consider him also a hero and patriot. It is our duty as citizens to think about what is best for our country and not accept what someone says just because of who they are.

    >I got shot down over N Vietnam in 1967..a sq commander.After I returned in 1973.. I published 2 books that dealt a lot with “real torture” in Hanoi . Our make believe president is branding our country as a bunch of torturers when he has no idea what torture is.As for me..put thru a mock execution because I would not respond…pistol whipped on the head…same event.. Couple of days later…hung by my feet all day. I escaped and got recaptured a couple of weeks later.. I got shot and recaptured. Shot was OK…what happened after was not.They marched me to Vinh.. put me in the rope trick, trick..almost pulled my arms out of the sockets. Beat me on the head with a little wooden rod until my eyes were swelled shut, and my unshot, unbroken hand a pulp.Next day hung me by the arms…rebroke my right wrist…wiped out the nerves in my arms that control the hands..rolled my fingers up into a ball. Only left the slightest movement of my L forefinger. So I started answering with some incredible lies.Sent me to Hanoi strapped to a barrel of gas in the back of a truck.Hanoi ..on my knees..rope trick again. Beaten by a big fool.Into leg irons on a bed in Heartbreak Hotel.Much kneeling–hands up at Zoo.Really bad beating for refusing to condemn Lyndon Johnson.Several more kneeling events. I could see my knee bone thru kneeling holes.There was an escape from the annex to the Zoo. I was the Senior Officer of a large building because of escape..they started a mass torture of all commanders.I think it was July 7, 1969..they started beating me with a car fan belt. In first 2 days I took over 300 strokes..then stopped counting because I never thought I would live thru it.They continued day-nite torture to get me to confess to a non-existent part in the escape. This went on for at least 3 days. On my knees..fan belting.. cut open my scrotum with fan belt stroke. opened up both knee holes again. My fanny looked like hamburger..I could not lie on my back.They tortured me into admitting that I was in on the escape..and that my 2 room-mates knew about it.The next day I denied the lie.They commenced torturing me again with 3- 6- or 9 strokes of the fan belt every day from about July 11 or 12rh..to 14 October 1969. I continued to refuse to lie about my roommates again.Now, the point of this is that our make-believe president has declared to the world that we ( U.S. ) are a bunch of torturers.. Thus it will be OK to torture us next time when they catch us….because that is what the U.S. does.Our make-believe president is a know nothing fool who thinks that pouring a little water on some one’s face, or hanging a pair of womens pants over an Arabs head is TORTURE. He is a meathead.I just talked to MOH holder Leo Thorsness who was also in my sq in jail …. as was John McCain … and we agree that McCain does not speak for the POW group when he claims that Al Gharib was torture .. or that “water boarding” is torture.Our president and those fools around him who keep bad mouthing our great country are a disgrace to the United States . Please pass this info on to Sean Hannity. He is free to use it to point out the stupidity of the claims that water boarding …which has no after effect… is torture.
    If it got the Arab to cough up the story about how he planned the attack on the twin towers in NYC … hurrah for the guy who poured the water.<

    Yeah, if it got useful information from “the Arab,” then hurrah. The problem is, it didn’t. So far as we know, waterboarding was done to only three prisoners in US custody. One of them, Abu Zubaydah, was captured by US Special Forces in Pakistan in April of 2002. He was at first interrogated by the FBI, using traditional, non-violent, “rapport-building” methods. With this, in just a few days, he gave up the name of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed (who had previously been unknown to US intelligence) and explained how the 9/11 attacks had been planned. He also gave up José Padilla, so that he was able to be arrested when he later entered the US. Then, having already “cough[ed] up the story about how he planned the attack on the twin towers,” he was turned over to the CIA.

    The CIA then used “waterboarding, sleep deprivation, isolation, exposure to extreme temperatures, enclosure in tiny spaces, bombardment with agonizing sounds at extremely damaging decibel levels, and religious and sexual humiliation” on Zubaydah. As a result, they obtained…nothing. Zubayduh, when he was being “interrogated” by the CIA, agreed to whatever he was asked to confess and made up stories to end whatever they were doing to him at the time. One intelligence official has said that “[w]e spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms, and sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms” based on what Zubayduh invented while trying to escape torture.

    And here is the biggest problem. Even if you don’t care about world opinion of the US, the information obtained by torture is just not very good. The techniques to which our captured soldiers were exposed in North Korea and North Vietnam, which became part of SERE training, which became part of US interrogation programs, are great for getting false confessions, like the one Colonel Day says he gave under torture. They are not good at, and they were not designed for, getting accurate intelligence.

    In no way am I saying that the people in US custody are innocent. I understand that Colonel Day suffered horribly during his imprisonment and torture. I understand that the families of the 9/11 victims have suffered, and that we have in custody some of the people who made them suffer. Torture is effective at allowing people to feel vengeance. But our national interrogation policy needs to be about more than personal vengeance. It should produce reliable intelligence, and it should improve the world’s opinion of us, not worsen it. Torture does neither of those things, even if, like Colonel Day, you deny that it is torture.

    General David Petraeus, 2007
    “Our values and the laws governing warfare teach us to respect human dignity, maintain our integrity, and do what is right. Adherence to our values distinguishes us from our enemy. This fight depends on securing the population, which must understand that we – not our enemies – occupy the moral high ground.
    …Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary.

    We are, indeed, warriors. We train to kill our enemies. We are engaged in combat, we must pursue the enemy relentlessly, and we must be violent at times. What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight, however, is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect. While we are warriors, we are also all human beings.”

    Senator John McCain, 2005
    “The mistreatment of prisoners harms us more than our enemies. I don’t think I’m naive about how terrible are the wages of war, and how terrible are the things that must be done to wage it successfully. It is an awful business, and no matter how noble the cause for which it is fought, no matter how valiant their service, many veterans spend much of their subsequent lives trying to forget not only what was done to them, but some of what had to be done by them to prevail.

    I don’t mourn the loss of any terrorist’s life. Nor do I care if in the course of serving their ignoble cause they suffer great harm. They have pledged their lives to the intentional destruction of innocent lives, and they have earned their terrible punishment in this life and the next. What I do mourn is what we lose when by official policy or official neglect we allow, confuse or encourage our soldiers to forget that best sense of ourselves, that which is our greatest strength-that we are different and better than our enemies, that we fight for an idea, not a tribe, not a land, not a king, not a twisted interpretation of an ancient religion, but for an idea that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights.”

    General Carl Schurz, 1899
    “I confidently trust that the American people will prove themselves … too wise not to detect the false pride or the dangerous ambitions or the selfish schemes which so often hide themselves under that deceptive cry of mock patriotism: “Our country, right or wrong!” They will not fail to recognize that our dignity, our free institutions and the peace and welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism: “Our country—when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put right.””

    Comment by Kirt Wackford — July 26, 2009 @ 1:09 am

15. –Our make-believe president is a know nothing fool who thinks that pouring a little water on some one’s face, or hanging a pair of womens pants over an Arabs head is TORTURE. He is a meathead.

    I just talked to MOH holder Leo Thorsness who was also in my sq in jail …. as was John McCain … and we agree that McCain does not speak for the POW group when he claims that Al Gharib was torture .. or that “water boarding” is torture.–

    Of course “pouring a little water on someone’s face” is not torture. But waterboarding is not pouring water on someone’s face. It is forcing water into their mouth and nose when they cannot resist. It is designed to make them feel like they are drowning. Waterboarding has always been considered a form of torture, and its more traditional name is “the water torture”. After the end of World War II, the US prosecuted Japanese soldiers and civilians at the Tokyo War Crimes Trials for waterboarding captured US soldiers. In the Vietnam War, US servicemen were discharged for waterboarding North Vietnamese prisoners (or at least, for allowing it to be photographed). In Vietnam as in today’s War on Terror, the intelligence value of anything that might have been extracted by these methods was far less than the long-term damage to public opinion of the US mission.
    Waterboarding came into use by the CIA through instructors who had experience applying it to US soldiers as part of SERE training. Waterboarding our own soldiers, by our own soldiers, is designed to help them resist similar torture if they are captured by actual enemies. But why do they need this training? If waterboarding is not torture, if it is just “pouring a little water on some one’s face,” surely SEALs and Green Berets should laugh it off, no?
    No. When our enemies do it to US prisoners, we consider it torture. But, Colonel Day says, when we do it to enemy prisoners, it is not. When our enemies do it to US prisoners, we prosecute them for war crimes. When our current President says we will not do it to our enemies, Colonel Day calls him a “know nothing fool”.
    You could make the argument that waterboarding is not torture while still admitting what the procedure really is. You could even admit that it is torture and make the argument that it is justified given the enemies we face. Either one of these would be honest arguments and deserve to be considered. But calling it “pouring a little water on some one’s face” is simply dishonest.
    Similarly, it is willfully dishonest to claim that what happened at Abu Ghraib was not torture because, at its worst, it consisted of “hanging a pair of womens pants over an Arabs head.” Because of what happened at Abu Ghraib there were seven soldiers convicted at courts martial, sentenced to federal prison, and dishonorably discharged. They were convicted of dereliction of duty, maltreatment, failure to prevent cruelty, aggravated assault, battery, and indecent acts. One prisoner, Manadel al-Jamadi, was beaten and hung by his wrists until he died. The Army ruled that his death was a homicide.
    You can argue that these acts were brutal or wrong, but not actually torture. But claiming that all of this is the equivalent of putting pants over someone’s head is manifestly dishonest. Willfully ignoring the damage that Abu Ghairaib did to foreign opinion of the US, a key factor in the War on Terror, is simply irresponsible and dangerous.

    Comment by Kirt Wackford — July 26, 2009 @ 1:15 am

16. God Bless You for all that you are and shall be with God-given

    strength and wisdom. God bless our USA!

    Comment by Nina Brooks — October 11, 2009 @ 10:35 am

17. [...] Letter from Col. Bud Day, MOH recipient, former POW on torture – 26 May 09 [...]

    Pingback by Northwest Veterans Newsletter Blog » Blog Archive » Letter from Col. Bud Day on Torture — January 15, 2010 @ 4:54 pm

18. Excellent description of how it was and what our military personel faced during Col. Bud Day’s military service.

    How do we get these comments in front of Obama or others in the government?

    We don’t want to give our country away, nor do we want to appologize.

    Jerry Wayt (U.S. Army 1952 - 1957)…

    Comment by Jerry Wayt — March 1, 2010 @ 4:35 pm

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